Adventures at the Flu Fair  

 

About four years ago I learned of Thimerosal. In the intervening years I've tried to bring awareness of this topic to the attention of the public, through flyers, internet forum and newsgroup posts, bumper stickers and blogs. I've been banned from internet political chat rooms on the left and the right where I'd chatted amiably for years, from internet forums, and even threatened with arrest for my efforts. After the arrest attempt of last April, at the Cleveland House of Blues Autism Speaks benefit concert, where I was told to leave for distributing these flyers http://www.wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/vaccine_flyer.htm, I uploaded these documents-- http://www.wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/HOB_incident_report.htm -- as evidence of my treatment after the President of the local Autism Speaks chapter denied, pubicly, that an arrest attempt was made. Although the police incident report reads that the police were summoned because I was 'threatening guests', I was not threatening anyone but was merely standing outside of the venue handing out flyers calmly to people who were interested, while my husband waited nearby. The police chief was eventually summoned and I was informed that I could remain, so long as I didn't harass anyone. I didn't need to be told not to harass anyone.

In recent months I've spent some time attempting to gather information about the thimerosal content of flu vaccines.

 

Here is a blog 

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/clinic_timeline.htm

(as accurate as my notes and recollection allow) of my quest to gather information about area flu shot clinics:

 

 

End of October— 

 

I get a reply from April S., Consumer Response Representative at Walgreens. I’ve written Walgreens with concerns about the flu shots and the flu shot clinics they are offering at local stores in my area. The reply reads, verbatim:

 

 

October 23, 2007

Dear Robin Nemeth,

Thank you for taking your time to contact our Corporate Offices. We
appreciate hearing from our Thank you for taking your time to contact our
Corporate Offices. We appreciate hearing from our customers and value all
comments received.

The flu shots use thimerosal as a preservative, which is mercury-based but
the mercury levels in the preservative are very low (it is the same stuff
used in most contact lense solutions). If you have a mercury allergy, we
recommend that you do not get a flu shot.

Again, thank you for letting us know about your satisfaction. We truly
appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Sincerely,

April S.
Consumer Response Representative
Ref # 1257213

 

Questions will be color coded and categorized as to who it would be most appropriate to ask.

red-public health, city, state county or health or AAP etc.

purple-contractors and retailers

green-manufacturers

orange-google

yellow-individual doctors and hospital administrators

brown-rhetorical  

TCB means 'to call back', and it means that someone is supposed to get back to me, or said that they'd maybe get back to me. We will see what happens. 

-->> Something I need to follow up on or do. 

 

 

Wednesday Nov. 7—

 

 

I receive a letter from Ms. Parent, of CVS/pharmacy, addressing my concerns about the flu shots being administered at local CVS stores. I’d sent her a letter wanting to know if they contain more than trace amounts of thimerosal. She suggests I call Maxim at 1-800-796-2946.

 

 

Looking for flu shot clinics in the area, online, I find that Maxim Health Systems has also contracted with Giant Eagle, Walmart, and CVS to provide flu shot clinics.

 

I call Maxim. I speak with someone named Stephen, who doesn’t want me to know his last name. Stephen isn’t a clinician and that’s why he can’t tell me a lot. I ask him what percentage of the flu shots they are administering have trace amounts or less of thimerosal. He doesn’t know for sure, but guesses they are 60 percent Glaxo Smith Kline’s Fluarix (which has 1mcg thimerosal. This is trace, I don’t care about it that much) and 40 percent Sanofi-Pastor’s Fluzone ( this one has twenty five mcg thimerosal). But, he tells me, I shouldn’t worry because all of the people who get a shot are warned that there might be trace amounts of mercury. (25 mcg isn’t considered ‘trace’. I tell him this.) He tells me he will have a supervisor call me back. It’s about 11:00 am.

 

 

 

 

Supervisor from Maxim calls me. He tells me his name but rather fast and it sounds garbled and I don’t get it. I ask him what percentage are thimerosal free. And I ask him why, if the Department of Health and Human Services is working to remove thimerosal from childhood vaccines, does Maxim continue to administer vaccines that have twenty five micrograms of thimerosal in them? He couldn’t answer these questions. He did, however, tell me that ninety nine percent of children are given thimerosal free influenza vaccines. I asked him how he knows this, what his source for this information is. He thought he read it somewhere is what he tells me.  I am skeptical that this is true, but that’s ok because I hear a lot of stuff and then later on I can’t remember where I heard it or read it. He asks me why I want to know, what I hope to accomplish, and I tell him that I’m hoping to find someone who can tell me why, if the DHHS is working to remove thimerosal from vaccines, there is still thimerosal in vaccines.  Someone who is willing to give me their name, and who is willing to tell me why they think that might be. He says to me that the CDC says it’s safe, and that this isn’t a court of law, and “good luck with that.”  I ask him for his name. He tells me that he doesn’t think I need that information. I hang up.

 

I call the local Giant Eagle store, to tell someone there how my conversation with Maxim went, and to try to find out whose decision it was to contract with them to do the flu clinics. They can’t help me, but tell me to contact the corporate office, so I do. They either can’t help me there, or else I get disconnected, (I forget which). But  later on I get a call from Betty McGury (spelling?) from the Giant Eagle corporate office. Her title is something like the Administrative Assistant to the Director of Pharmacy Sourcing. She says she’ll transfer me to someone who can help, but then I get disconnected. I call her back and leave a message for her to call me back.

  ***

I call the local Walmart store, and they tell me to call the corporate office, so I do. Someone named Crystal, Consumer Relations, tells me that Maxim isn’t doing the flu shots for Walmart, but Novartis Theraflu is. I call Novartis and a woman says no, they’re not doing anymore clinics. (Websites I look at confirm that while they did clinics in my area Walmart stores in October, they no longer do them. Maxim is doing them in November and December) I call Crystal back, it’s about 2:30 pm, and tell her actually Maxim is doing the flu clinics, not Novartis. I tell her I want to contact the person who made the decision to contract with Maxim, because of my concerns about the flu shots, and the lack of information I received when I called Maxim. She tells me to call 800.228.8813, and I ask if that is a number for someone with Walmart and she says it is. I ask her who I would be speaking with, there at that number, and she says “I don’t know” and so I ask her what their title is or what department they work in. She says “hold on a minute”, comes back five or ten minutes later, and says “literacy helpline”. I say “why would I want to speak with somebody from literacy helpline?”, and get disconnected. It’s 2:54 pm.

 

I call back. This time I get someone named Chandra. She asks if I would mind holding while she researches this. I say “no”, knowing it is a rhetorical question.

 

“Call the Walmart home office at 479.273.4000”, she tells me. “Speak with Pharmacy and Merchandizing”. So I do. Someone there named Shawna tells me to call Vendor Relations at 479. 273.4133. Someone at that number answers and says “Supplier Development”. It’s now 3:07. That person can’t help me, transferrs me to someone from the ‘Other Income’ department. He is away from his desk so a I leave a message asking him to call me back.

 

Late afternoon. Somebody from Giant Eagle calls. She says her name is Carol Seward and is the Manager of Client Services for Pharmacy. She can’t tell me what percentage of the flu vaccines that are administered in the flu shot clinics are thimerosal free (or trace amount), but she seems nice and she tells me she’ll have someone else call me.

 

Around five pm. Somebody from Walmart calls. Says I should talk to Sahar Gibson, Pharmacy Merchandizing Coordinator, at 479.273.6480. I tell her I want to talk to the person who made the decision to contract the flu shot clinic in the local Walmart stores, and she said she doesn’t know if that information can be given out. She says she’ll find out and call me back.

 

 

 

Around five thirty—somebody from Giant Eagle calls me. Says his name is Greg Carlson. I explain to him about my phone call to Maxim. About how I am concerned that I didn’t get answers to the questions I had, but did get some information that would’ve been quite reassuring had I not known or strongly suspected it to be false. How no one there would tell me to whom I was speaking.  He tells me that they rely on CDC information, which says that thimerosal is safe. I tell him yes but the DHHS has recommended removal from all vaccines. He tells me that he understands my concerns, and that his cousin is a chiropractor and has concerns about vaccines and while he doesn’t necessarily agree, he understands that his cousin and his views are deserving of some respect. He says he will contact his local supplier at Maxim and talk with him about this.

 

Thursday morning. I get a call from someone at Maxim, who asks me what he can do for me. I tell him “first off, tell me your name, because I’m not really interested in spending any more time getting faulty information from people who aren’t willing to stand behind what they say enough to say who they are, before they say it.” He tells me he is Steve Polito, National Director of Maxim Health System. I ask him what percentage of flu shot doses they administer are thimerosal free(or trace). He tells me he doesn’t know. He tells me it depends on the area. He says they can’t get all thimerosal free vaccines, because their supply of those is limited. I ask him if it concerns him that the DHHS is working toward removal of all thimerosal from vaccines. He says no because the CDC says it’s safe, and because they are following state laws. I ask him for his phone number. It’s 410.910.1500. I want it because, as I tell him, I am so overjoyed to finally find a person who is willing to talk to me about this, who feels confident in what he’s doing (“we don’t make the flu shots” he told me a couple of times), and who is willing to give me his name. He tells me that he will talk to the supervisors and ask them to refer people to someone else (perhaps he says he’ll ask them to “refer them to me” but I’m not sure about this), if they can’t answer peoples questions. I tell him that when I worked as an engineer, if anyone had called our office and said “I have some concerns about these drawings, can you tell me who’s responsible for them so that I can speak with them?”, if I’d answered “I don’t think you need that information” I believe I would’ve got my rear end booted out the door faster than I could even think about clearing out my desk.

 

After the call I wonder what the state laws are like. Apparently there isn’t one that makes it illegal to sell flu shots with twenty five micrograms of thimerosal. I’m sure there aren’t any state laws that make it illegal to inject somebody with some horrible chemical that would instantly make their skin turn all purple and green and ooze smelly pus, either. I know I still wouldn’t want to do it to someone.

 

Ah well, never mind. Thimerosal is safe. The CDC says so.

 

I go to a CDC website, which confirms that there may not be enough thimerosal free flu vaccines for three year olds.

 

I call the CDC at 1.800.CDCINFO and press the voice menu button for ‘General Healthline’. “Steve Polito, the National Director at Maxim Health Systems, tells me that they can only get a limited number of thimerosal free flu vaccines. Why do you think that is?”, I ask the person who answers my phone. And I ask “And how large of a supply is there?” It’s 11:42 am. The woman on the phone asks me to wait a few moments. Then she starts talking to me and it sounds like she is reading from something. “Most flu vaccines have thimerosal. Some only have trace amounts.” She continues on a few more moments. I say that I understand that some flu shots have a trace amount. But what I want to know is how many have more than that. She says she’ll look and I wait a few more minutes. I say “isn’t there anyone you could connect me with who might know something about this off of the top of their head?” and she tells me that if I want accurate information I’ll have to wait while she searches.  I wait a few more minutes and then she says she’ll transfer me to a Public Health Specialist.

 

I ask the Public Health Specialist if she can give me her name. She is not allowed to give out her name. I ask her why not and she says she doesn’t know. I ask her if she’s ever wondered why, and she says “I’m just here to help you”. I say “can you transfer me to someone who CAN tell me their name?” She transfers me to someone else.

 

“We can’t give out names”, this person says. “For security reasons. We get threats. Lots of really crazy people out there.”  I say “have I threatened you?” and she says no and I say “so it’s CDC policy to assume anyone who calls could be threatening?” and she says “I will hang up if you don’t have a question for me.” I tell her that actually I’d meant that last thing that I’d said as a question. She says she’s a medical person and is there to answer medical questions. I notice that she sighs a great deal. I can sympathize.

 

I tell her I really would rather get information from somebody willing to tell me who they are, but ok, I figure I’m here and I’ve been waiting this long, I might as well ask. “What percentage of flu vaccines produced have less than 1 mcg of thimerosal?” I say. She tells me I ought to try contacting the manufacturers. But she’ll see what she can find out for me. I say “isn’t there anyone there, what with all of the concerns about thimerosal and autism, who has any idea without having to spend a lot of time researching it?” and she says something to the effect of how everything has to be very accurate and so it has to be on the screen. I say “do you mean documented somehow, everything we say?” and she says yes.  And I say that I don’t mind if she does that, records our conversation somehow. She says she still will have to research the matter. Or that she can give me a number for what she called, I think, a ‘case file’.  I ask her to research it for me.

 

While she’s presumably doing this she says she can give me the numbers of manufacturers of thimerosal free vaccines and she does.

 

Sanofi-Pastor 800.822.2463

Novartis (“or it might say Chiron”, she says, “but that’s Novartis”) 800.244.7668

GSK 866.475.8222

Medimmune 877.633.4411

 

She asks for my phone number so she can call me back. (TCB) I give it to her. She doesn’t promise to call me back, says she can’t, but she’ll try. She asks for my name and I tell her. She asks me to spell it, and I start to, and then I pause and I say “wait.. wait.. Should I be afraid, you think?”

 

She sighs and hangs up on me.  I get the feeling she might have been offended.

 

I skip the CDC survey that every caller gets to take. The questions are all multiple choice. I suspect I won’t be happy with any of the choices I’d be given.

 

Evening—Get a call back from Matthew Carroll, from the Cleveland Department of Public Health. Director. I’d left a message earlier, on his phone machine, voicing concerns about the safety of flu shots, and Maxim Health Systems in particular. He goes on with the usual reassurances. CDC, AAP. Says he can’t talk long as he has to leave for a meeting real soon and will be out of town for awhile, and that I should call him Monday with any other particular questions I had. So I make a list of questions off the top of my head.

 

 (I understand that children and babies experience a higher exposure to thimerosal per unit of body weight, and are thus at higher risk. But my concern is that twenty five micrograms might be sufficiently high of a dose to cause harm to even an adult. I’ve seen estimates from well respected and well credentialed individuals in the fields of science and medicine who’ve suggested that exposures are on the order of hundreds of times the safe limit.)

 

 

 

 

Friday November 9, 2007. 5AM. Oh yeah, now I remember why the claim that ninety percent of children receive thimerosal free shots disturbed me. My thimerosal/autism link flyer that I’ve been distributing all over for the last four or five years http://www.wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/vaccine_flyer.htm has a link to an FDA website which lists the thimerosal content of vaccines, http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

 Scrolling down to table 1, which is called ‘Thimerosal Content of Vaccines Routinely Recommended for Children 6 Years of Age and Younger’, I see that Fluzone (Sanofi Pasteur, Inc), and Fluvirin (Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics Ltd) are shown here as containing 12.5 to 25 micrograms of thimerosal per dose. Perhaps the FDA site hasn’t been updated since 2005. Perhaps these vaccines are no longer routinely recommended. But this doesn’t mean that they aren’t still being administered. I make a mental note to email Mr. Matthew and ask him if he knows.

 

 

As well as to call the FDA and find out if they have a more current table that I ought to be looking at.

 

Time to make a cup of tea and get the children up for school. First tho I decide to upload this document to the WideOpenWest website server.

 

November 9, 07 8:40AM, I call Sanofi-Pasteur 800. 244.7668 and speak with someone who says her name is Lynn and she’s with Medical Information.

 

Me:  I was told by someone at the CDC that you make thimerosal free flu vaccines. I was also told by Mr. Steve Palito, of Maxim Health Systems, that they are able to get only a limited supply of thimerosal free vaccines, to administer to people who come to the flu shot clinics that they are conducting at various area stores near where I live. Can you tell me please, what is the percentage of thimerosal free (or trace, less than 1mcg) vaccines that have been produced?

 

Lynn :  There will be plenty of vaccines.

 

Me: how many are thimerosal free? What percentage of the individual doses?

 

Lynn :  The adult dosage of preservative free is sold out. But more than half of that produced was preservative free.

 

Me: Is that more than half of individual doses?

 

Lynn : I don’t know.

 

Me: Well can you transfer to someone who might?

 

Lynn : That information is not available.

 

Me: It’s not? Nobody there knows how many doses of thimerosal free versus greater than 1 mcg doses of vaccine were produced?

 

Lynn : It’s confidential.

 

Me: So it is available, just not to me?

 

Lynn : It is confidential. To consumers.

 

Me: so let me see if I can get this straight. Majority of flu vaccines your company produces are thimerosal free. You can tell me this, it’s not confidential. But the exact percentage of individual doses of each that were produced is confidential?

 

Lynn : it’s proprietary. Go to the FDA they have information about all of the vaccines and the thimerosal content. I don’t think, tho that they have breakdowns for percent of each produced. Let me see if I can get this information. .. (on hold for a few minutes) … It’s confidential. We’re not obligated.

 

Me: I understand that you aren’t obligated. But it would reassure a lot of people, if they could get this information.

 

Lynn : The majority is thimerosal free.

 

Me: Is that by volume?

 

Lynn : three quarters of the presentations we produce are thimerosal free.

 

Me: What is a ‘presentation’?

 

Lynn : presentations are whether they are vials or syringes.

 

Me: This doesn’t really tell me anything, tho, about what percentage of individual doses are thimerosal free. As the vials have multiple doses.

 

Lynn : If you don’t have anymore questions, I’m going to have to go to another caller.

 

I think for awhile, trying to think if I have any questions. Twenty or thirty seconds go by.

 

Lynn : Maam?

Me: I’m thinking. No I don’t have any more questions.

 

Call ends at 9:05AM

 

It's eleven thirty. I spent an hour or so at the local county library flu shot clinic. Conducted by Parma Hospital . I asked one of the nurses there what kind of vaccines were being given, and what was the thimerosal content.  I was told that they all have it. I'm sure I must have looked surprised. Then, I was told that most of them have it. I said that's odd because most people I've spoken with say that most of them DON'T have it. I asked if the ones on the table over there did. She didn't know. I asked if I could look at the label. No, I couldn't look at the label. I asked if I paid for one, could I look at the label. I think she said she'd have to call and find out. (Her name, she said, was Lolly Stager) She got off the phone and said I would have to leave, and that I should talk to Kevin Zupancik, Director of Pharmacy at Parma Hospital . I went outside to sit in the hallway. She told me I would have to go outside of the library. I told her that the library branch manager had told me that she was checking to see if it was ok if I stayed and handed out flyers. (I'd spoken to a person at the library information desk, when I'd gone in. To find out which room the clinic was in.) The library branch manager, at the parma south branch of the cuyahoga county library, told me that I'd have to go outside. Everyone said they understood my concerns. The nurse told me that they were just there to give the shots.

So, I sat outside handing out safemind's brochure 'Flu vaccines, What you need to know'. Somebody coming in suggested I might ask for a chair, as I was sitting on the ground. I decided it couldn't hurt, so I went inside to ask the woman at the desk. She said "I'll have to ask."  She asked the branch manager, and the branch manager told me that she would have to go and see. The branch manager went off to talk to somebody else or to make a phone call, came back, and told me that sorry, no, I couldn't have one. They aren't allowed to move furniture around. "Outside", I think she might've added, but I'm not sure. "you're welcome to bring one of your own, tho."

Ms. Stager gave me a Fluzone flyer, before I went outside. It has a phone number I should call. I believe that it is Kevin Z.'s number but I'm not sure. 440.743.4320. I'll call him later if I find the time. The flyer is a package insert that comes with the vaccines, I believe. Glancing at it, I notice that for different age groups, different numbers of doses are called for. (I remember way back when, a few years ago, when I got flu shots for my own children, at my husband's request, I was supposed to come back for a series of three doses. I only ever got them one dose.) I'd forgotten that often flu shots involve more than one shot per season. The age groups shown in the table begin at six months. I presume this means that the Fluzone vaccine is being given to children. The nurses at the clinic did say that THEY weren't allowed to vaccinate any children, tho, there at their clinic. I will look at it later, if I remember, and see if it lists thimerosal content. Looking at the FDA website I see that Fluzone comes in a thimerosal free version. I don't know which version this flyer is for but I suppose the information is in here somewhere.

Oh, I see here that the Fluzone package insert says (oooh it's hard to read the print is SO small!), 'the majority of influenza vaccine distributed in the US contains the preservative thimerosal, a mercury containing compound, but influenza vaccine with a reduced or no thimerosal content is available.' It goes on to say that thimerosals been used since the thirties and that no data or evidence exists of any harm caused by the level of exposure experienced thru influenza vaccination.

I remember speaking with the woman at Sanofi Pasteur, and how she told me that she could only speak for her own company, when I asked what percentage of vaccines produced are thimerosal free. I wonder, then, why they are able to say, in their brochure, that the majority of influenza vaccines distributed in the US have thimerosal.

Perhaps this package flyer answers my question, tho. What percentage of flu vaccines have thimerosal? It says that the majority contain thimerosal. But it doesn't say how much. What I would really like to know is, what percentage contain over a trace amount of thimerosal. (over 1 mcg).

The package insert tells me all of the ways the product is supplied. (or presented, I suppose they could've said). Syringe with needle. Syringe without needle. Vials, two different kinds. "shake before using", it says. In teensy, weensy, itsy bitsy letters.

Ha. You bet.

I don't think I'll be able to know without reading the whole flyer if the package it came from had thimerosal or not. I think I will ask Kevin Z. this.

1:00 PM, called Kevin Z. and left message for him to call me back.  (TCB)

  ***

 

The Safeminds brochure bothers me a little bit in that it focuses almost exclusively on children and pregnant women.

 

My father recently got a flu shot, and I have to say that I’m concerned for ADULTS who get these thimerosal preserved shots.

 

So I was also handing out my own flyer, at the library, after awhile, as well.

 

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/vaccine_flyer.htm

 

When I originally asked to hand out flyers at the library, I was told as long as I wasn’t selling anything, it was okay. I gave the woman at the desk a Safeminds brochure and she said she’d see if it was ok for me to hand it out, and showed me where the clinic room was.  So that’s when I went into the clinic room. After I was told to leave the room, by the nurses there, I went outside to the hall. I sat there to distribute brochures. I decided I wanted to hand out MY flyer, as well, so I got up and went to the library desk and said “I’ll also be handing out this” and gave her a copy of my flyer. She said she’d see if it was ok.

 

The nurse came over to me and said I’d have to go outside. I said that I’d spoken with the librarian and I was waiting for the librarian to tell me if I could stay inside of the library. The branch manager of the library then came and told me I would have to go outside.

 

I’ve called her, because I’m curious. Why was it ok for me to be inside, if I was only giving people Safeminds brochures, but not ok, if I was handing out my own flyers? They don’t sell anything. I wonder if this was her decision, or if she asked someone else before she told me I had to go outside. I have called the library to talk to her and ask her, just because I’m curious.

 

Oh look she’s called me back already. Doti says that leafletting (handing out flyers) can’t be done except outside. She said the woman at the information desk gave me the wrong information when she told me that it was ok to be inside, so long as I wasn’t selling anything. They are happy to put my information in their public placement areas. She said she could send me a copy of the policy they follow, if I would like. I told her I didn’t think I wanted to read that right now. But maybe some time, I said. I might want to talk to their marketing executive, if I’m interested in this type of stuff, Doti told me. At the Snow Rd branch, I think she said. Madeleine Brookshire.

 

Marketing. Ack.  

***

I've switched tenses. Oh well. It's easier to write this way.  Hopefully I won't switch back again.

When I was at the library this afternoon, when I sat down at the table in the flu clinic room, one of the nurses there, I'm not sure which one, told me I should call Kevin Z. And I asked her for his number, and I had one of my own flyers out, and I was ready to write the number down next to the name. But there wasn't a lot of empty white space on my flyer, on either side. So I picked up one of the forms that were there that the people getting the shots were supposed to fill out first. A blank one. There were about eight or ten stacks of forms about a quarter or half an inch high, on tables all around the room, and I picked a form up off the top of the pile closest to me. And turned it over and it was blank, so I thought oh I'll write on this. And, as I put the pen over the paper, ready to write the number down, the nurse said to me, "you can't have that. Those are ours", and she took it out of my hand, and moved the pile closest to me out of reach. 

The more they do this sort of thing, the more questions I find I have. 

A CNN website I just looked at said that 'supplies of mercury-free flu vaccine are limited due to manufacturing capacity'. 

The same site http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/31/flu.hm.flu.shot/index.html also says eight million of 132 million doses are thimerosal free.

But I thought this information was proprietary? How did CNN get the information? I told the woman at Sanofi, when I talked to her this morning, that I wasn't sure what that meant. She said it means private. Confidential. Looking it up on dictionary.com I see it means 'privately owned and operated for profit'. I guess that means, what, that I was supposed to pay her if I wanted to get the information?

 

November 10, 2007 5AM-- 

Questions for Mr. Kevin Zupancik, Director of Pharmacy at Parma Hospital

 

Marketing executive?? The branch manager at the library thinks I should speak with the marketing executive at the Snow Road branch if I'm really interested in finding out about my rights to distribute information at and around the library? Did I hear that right?

I ought to try to figure out a system so that I can tag the questions with the names of the people who I think ought to best be able to answer them. One thing I am going to do is try to bullet most of the more important ones. They aren't rhetorical. And everytime somebody says they'll call me back, or even if they say they might, I have to tag it with TCB. (To Call Back) And then later on I can search back, and see if they ever did. 

 

2PM-- Even if the fda website I was looking at was wrong, was outdated, isn't it possible that other people, doctors, might be looking at the site, and assuming that the flu vaccines with thimerosal are what is recommended for children under six? Or nurses? Shouldn't the FDA be keeping their site updated? Isn't the FDA part of the DHHS? And hasn't the DHHS said, eight years ago, that they were working to remove thimerosal, certainly in vaccines for children? Doesn't anyone at the FDA know what's on their site, and that the information is erroneous? Doesn't anyone higher up at the DHHS know? Hasn't anyone told them yet, even with all of the bruhaha and autism, and all of the people who think it might be thimerosal contributing to that? 

Is the site not secure, and somebody is hacking it and putting the wrong information on sites all of the time? Don't they have secure servers over there at the FDA? Why is erroneous information showing up on the FDA site, information that would lead people to think it's not only ok, but a good idea, to inject a child with thimerosal preserved flu vaccine?

***

Ok, that was a stupid example. I never had any other engineers I supervised. And if I ever did, if anyone outside of the organization had concerns about drawings that they didn't take directly to the person responsible for the drawings because they knew who that person was, but if he or she brought those concerns to me, instead, I wouldn't tell him who was responsible for the drawings. I would deal with the problem, somehow. Internally. And if I couldn't deal with the problem by getting the person under me to make it right somehow, I would fix it myself. And then find something easier for him to do, or fire his butt if I had to, if he was the sort of deceptive weasel I encounter more and more often these days. Or, I would go up the ladder and I would say "I can't deal with this situation, you have to." 

THIS lovely mess, it seems to me, has reached the top of the ladder. 

I certainly would not say to that person "Well I can't help you. Can't tell you who could. Can't tell you who could tell you. Can't tell you my name. Don't think you need that information. Don't expect anything I'm saying to you will hold up in court. You want to try to hold me responsible for anything I say or do? Good luck with that."

Maybe the only point I'm trying to make is that I'm soooo fooking sick of people who can't or won't take responsibility for anything. 

Even if a nurse said to me, "yeah, I worked for thirty years giving vaccines. Shake the vial between doses? Hell, for years I didn't even know I was supposed to shake it before I opened it", what do they think I'm going to do, accuse them of murder? I'd want to know how it was they were supposed to have known. Read that package insert? 

Perhaps somebody might've told them. Perhaps if somebody DID tell them, but a lot of them forget anyway, perhaps it's not a good idea to use them at all. If the consequences of a single screw up are so dire. 

But these stupid points are all moot. The DHHS has said the public health agencies were working with the manufacturers to remove thimerosal. It's eight years later. It's still in there. It's eight years later. The FDA website still recommends thimerosal preserved flu vaccines for children.

8PM. 

 

November 11, 2007 

6AM. Is there any alzheimers in the amish?

If doctors are informed by health officials not to rely on websites for recommendations (ie FDA site that recommends thimerosal preserved shots for children under six), then why doesn't the FDA fix their site so that parents don't receive faulty information from the site? Parents are given the impression that thimerosal is ok, from this site, when in fact the DHHS has agreed to remove it.  

I called Kevin Z. and left a message on his phone machine, yesterday, and asked him to call me back. (TCB)

 

 

2PM About the incidence of alzheimers in the amish...  These people would seem to think so ... http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/10/1/100 

'We describe a study with a different Amish population, the Old Order Amish of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, that does not support the hypothesis that a lower frequency of AD in the Amish may be accounted for by a reduced prevalence of the E4 allele'.

I should look further. 

November 12, 07

Got this email address off the web  media@citcomm.com  Trying to contact Citadel Broadcasting, cause I know Don Imus is supposed to have a show with them in December.  But my mail I sent came back undeliverable. Will send snail mail with url link to this site, as well as the first few pages.

New York Office:
142 West 57th Street
11th Floor
New York, NY 10019

Jane Milota had asked me to send them a letter asking that they keep on with the thimerosal topic, but I can't find that snail mail addy she sent me, (I did send one Jane!), so I'll have to rely on their website address.

Ok that's in the mailbox. Noel's home today. It's veteran's day. Gonna eat breakfast with my hubby. 

Oh well, he's not eating breakfast yet cause he has to change his colostomy bag. 

Front page of the the Sun Star. Local newspaper, comes weekly. Top headline reads 'Residents want out'. First sentence of the article reads 'A recent report of storm water remedies in the city has alarmed some Edgerton Road street to point they want out of their neighborhood.'

Gee I'm glad I called and told them to cancel my subscription to that paper. They brought one anyway. Noel knows he's not to pay the kid who comes to collect. Sorry kid. 

Dad got a flu shot a week or two ago. I think a week ago thursday. Mark seemed to think the reason dad suddenly needed a walker was because of some new drug he was taking. At first I thought it was a new drug for nausea that Mark was talking about. Thought that's what Mark told me. The reason dad needs a walker now is nausea. He always had it, just not so bad he needed the walker, before. Now Mark says, tho, that he thinks it could be the antibiotic. A hundred and eighty days worth that dad's been taking for ninety days, I think, so far. For his colon problem. (diarrhea). So Mark cut back on the antibiotic to see if dad was less dizzy and nauseous but that didn't help. I said that's not a good idea. Resistance, and all. He said he's got dad on the full amount again.

I should've submitted the vaccine adverse reaction form. 

 

I remember, when Falun Gong was getting so much grief a few years ago, in China. Thinking to myself, 'now why would the government care about a bunch of people who're only interested in showing people how to exercise?' 

I don't know what color to make this question. Oh well. 

That was verbatim, what I typed. From the Sun newspaper. I checked it. 

And just for the record, I never did write April S. to tell her about my satisfaction. I wrote her a letter with concerns about area flu clinics. Back in October. 

 

Ok, now I'm just looking for things to be negative about. No need for that. 

Tomorrow, Walgreens at the corner. Noon. This time I think I'll just bring a chair. Sit outside.

Call another manufacturers. See if someone can tell me what's taking so long.

-----upload-----

Tues. November 13, 07

 

 

Called Novartis, 8:30AM. (Press 2, medical questions). Someone TCB.

 

 

Called Glaxo Smith Kline at 9AM.

Press 3, Prescription medicine

Paulette, Response representative

 

Me: I have questions about thimerosal content. What percentage are thimerosal free? CNN reports six percent thimerosal free. Why is this amount so low?

Paulette: Fluarix is thimerosal free

Me: What percentage of your flu vaccines are thimerosal free?

 

Transfer to Cathy

 

Cathy: There are multidose vials. They have a shelf life of twenty eight days.

Me: What percentage of individual doses of flu vaccines you produce are thimerosal free, or less than one mcg? Why is it taking so long?

 

 

 

Cathy: It depends on the individual health care provider. What sort of storage they want to use.

Me: but what percentage do you produce?

Cathy: well orders are prebooked. We have to wait for WHO to decide which strains to include in a shot.

 

Me: yes but you don’t have to wait for decisions about which strains to include in order to decide what presentations to produce, do you? You don’t need to know this information in order to try to increase production of thimerosal free, do you?

 

It takes time for the approval processes. Limited time frame. FDA has to approve each vaccine before it goes to market.

 

Me: So the FDA hasn’t approved any?

 

Our Fluarix is thimerosal free.

 

Me: But what percentage of individual doses are thimerosal free?

Beth: they all are

Me: what percentage of individual doses of your flu shots are thimerosal free.

 

Beth: It’s a big deal to come up with a new process.

 

Me: does your package insert call for shaking?

Yes

Me: Why?

If it’s in suspension.

Why?

We have multidose vials.

Why do they call for shaking?

Shelf life.

Me: I understand they have a shelf life.

Cathy: preservative

Me: why do you shake

Cathy: it’s in suspension. Multidose vials have to be shook.

Me: because something will separate out.

Cathy: yes, <sigh> it’s usually the adjuvants that separate out.

Me: what about the thimerosal

Cathy: I don’t know about the thimerosal.

If you have questions about flu vaccines you should ask your health care provider.

 

I explain that I have spoken with Maxim Health Systems, and they recommended that I do that, but when I went to the local flu shot clinic and asked the nurse for this information, (is there thimerosal in the flu vaccines?), they couldn’t give me this information either. She suggested I ask my doctor.

 

Me: the nurse at the clinic would be my healthcare provider, if I’m getting a flu shot at a flu shot clinic, right.

 

I can’t remember how she answered that, if she did.

 

 

Me: So what percentage of doses are thimerosal free?

Cathy: that’s not available.

Me: there isn’t anyone there who can give me this information?

Cathy: there is no one available.

Me: nobody there has this information?

Cathy: there is no one available who can talk on the phone.

Me: (rather incredulously) they have this information, but they just can’t talk on the phone?

 

Mental note to me --I think she’s trying to tell me that perhaps there is someone who might know, but he’ll have to get back to me? Is that what ‘not available’ means?

 

Cathy: that will take some time. Can I have your number.

Me: yes. (I give her my phone number)

I’m on hold for a couple of minutes.

 

Someone returns to the phone. I think it’s still cathy on the line.

 

Cathy: I have a press release. It says ‘combined total of Fluarix and Flulaval total doses 30 to 35 million’. (she’s reading from the press release, and she reads a whole lot more, REALLY fast. I ask her to slow way down and repeat. she does. This is the main point I catch--Fluarix plus Flulaval, thirty to thirty five doses made or maybe she said sold. Fluarix has less than 1mcg. Flulaval has twenty five mcg. But that’s not anything I remember as I speak to her so I ask her and she eventually tells me. How much thimerosal each type of flu vaccine has.)

 

Me: Yes, but this doesn’t tell me what percentage are thimerosal free.

 

Cathy (angrily): none of them!  She goes on to explain that there’s trace amounts left after the manufacturing process sometimes.  If you don’t have any further questions? (she also says this more than a few times. I don’t know what I’m doing to lead her to believe that I don’t have any further questions. She in fact seems to say this very often right after I’ve asked her a question, but before I’ve gotten an answer. Or even when I’m in the middle of sentences, many of them sentences that would’ve turned out to be questions, if I could’ve finished them.)

 

Me: what percentage of your vaccines have less than 1 mcg of thimerosal?

She tells me that Flumist is thimerosal free.

 

Me: what percentage of the individual doses of your flu vaccines are less than 1 mcg of thimerosal?

 

Don’t you have our press release?

 

Me: no. that’s why I’ve called you.

 

Cathy: The CDC controls the vaccine supply. You need to ask them.

Me: I did call the CDC. They told me that that information is unavailable and that I should talk to the manufacturers.

Cathy: they’ve been working on getting other vaccines thimerosal free.

 

Me: what percentage of all your vaccines are thimerosal free, flu or otherwise?

Cathy: that’s not available

Me: nobody there can tell me this?

Cathy: Look, you’re repeating yourself. If you have any further questions?

Me: there isn’t anyone there able to tell me what percentage of all of your individual doses of vaccines, flu or otherwise, are thimerosal free? I mean, have less than 1mcg?

 

Cathy: It’s proprietary.

 

Me: so that means that if you told me that particular piece of information, it could cost the company money?

Cathy: it has nothing to do with money. It’s unavailable.

Look, I’m repeating myself.

 

Me: yes, and interrupting me, too. I don’t know how I’m ever going to be able to get my questions answered if you don’t stop that.

 

Cathy: I’m ending this call.

I wait awhile. I don’t hear anything for awhile so I presume I’ve been disconnected and I hang up.

 

 ***

 

Mental note to me: Next time I speak with someone with a manufacturer, ask them to please not interrupt me, if they keep doing so. (then be very careful not to interrupt THEM!) On account of it’s obnoxious how often some of these people don’t let me finish a sentence. I may not buy a tape recorder but I sure as heck will try making tick marks to count each interruption.

 

Adjuvant -- 5.Immunology. a substance admixed with an immunogen in order to elicit a more marked immune response.

 

Antigen -- Pharmacology. any commercial substance that, when injected or absorbed into animal tissues, stimulates the production of antibodies. Immunology. any substance that can stimulate the production of antibodies and combine specifically with them.

 

Mental note to me: try not to say ‘thimerosal free’ ever. Say ‘less than 1mcg’

 

***

Beth Miller (Novartis), returned my call around 10:15 am nov. 13

 

The DHHS has said they’d work with vaccine makers to remove thimerosal. That was in 1999. Why do I get people who tell me that their supplies of thimerosal free are limited? Why do I read a report on CNN that says only six percent of individual doses of flu vaccine are thimerosal free?

 

Beth: I don’t know. I don’t make policy.

 

Me: is there somebody there who can tell me why the supplies are still so low?

 

Beth: the majority are multidose. They’ll have to contain a preservative.

Why are the majority still multidose?

Beth: it’s a cost issue. They’ve been working on producing the other vaccines thimerosal free.  They are essentially now all thimerosal free.

 

 

Note to me, (I didn’t’ ask beth this but I wish I had):

If they can make the other vaccines (non flu shot vaccines) thimerosal free, why can’t they produce the flu shots thimerosal free? Aren't they made with the same type of production facilities?

 

Beth: You know that the CDC hasn’t mandated removal.

 

Me: yes but the DHHS has said (in 1999) that they are working with manufacturers toward removal of thimerosal from vaccines. Why is it that after eight years there are still flu shots being produced with high levels of thimerosal?

 

Beth: The demand is for multi dose vials.

Me: to save money.

Beth: well the CDC hasn’t mandated. Well, that would be the FDA.

 

Me: how do you decide how many of each type of presentation to produce?

Beth: that would be the business plan.

Me: Is there somebody I could speak to who could explain to me how the decisions about how many of each type of vaccine to make are reached?

 

If she answered this I don’t remember the answer.

 

Beth: orders are taken in jan. or feb. The multidose vials are cheaper. The goal is to vaccinate. As many as possible. The majority are multidose vials, for all manufacturers. (I wonder how she knows what the other manufacturers produce. I thought this type of information was proprietary?) The current business plan is to produce multi dose vials.

Only in the last two years did they lower the age of children getting a flu shot to six months.

 

Me, what I didn’t ask her but wish I had: So that is why the majority of flu vaccines produced are in multi dose vials? Because you were producing enough for only older children, but now the recommendation is to vaccinate younger children, so that’s why the business plan isn’t sufficient to get the percentage above six percent thimerosal free?

 

Beth: insurers also dictate what they’ll pay for.

 

Me: does thimerosal separate out and settle to the bottom?

Beth: no, it doesn’t.

 (it seems weird to get such a straight forward answer. I wonder if I’m dreaming)

Me: it doesn’t? then why shake the vials?

Beth: the antigens separate out.

Me: I see.  I’m curious because my husband asked why, if thimerosal is used as a preservative, why they’d use something as a preservative, if it tends to separate out.

Beth: no. it doesn’t separate out

 

***

2:20PM just got back from the Walgreens flu shot clinic. 

They don't vaccinate anyone under fourteen. Director of Pharmacy asked me to go outside so I did. I think his name was Matt. 

Later on I spoke with him outside. I asked him, if he wouldn't mind, to look at my thimerosal flyer, and let me know (I left him my name and number) if he sees anything he knows to be false, or if he sees anything on it that he feels is misleading.

 

There's a message on my answering machine. From Rich Corez of Novartis. Walmart sales team gave him my name, 'regarding questions I had about the flu shot program we did in October with Walmart.' He's not sure what my questions were.  I should call him at  973.503.7836, later this week. ("I'm actually out of the office right now," he said.) 

 

The next person I talk to will have to be with the FDA. Why does their site recommend flu vaccines that contain levels of thimerosal over 1mcg, in the table that shows vaccines listed for children?

I got to look at a box this time. Twenty five micrograms of thimerosal. 

November 14, 07 Wednesday

6AM

Matt, Director of Pharmacy, Walgreens at York and Sprague, N. Royalton: "I would ask you to leave...."

Me, thinking: You'd ask me, but... ?

I ask if he's with Walgreens, or with the flu shot clinic. He says he's with Walgreens. Says I can stay but he can't have me disturbing his clinic and indicates I should go outside. I go outside. 

 

Later on, outside, I talk to him about the elderly coming in for flu shots. I ask him if he doesn't think it might not be a good idea for them to be injected with a neurotoxin. He tells me that the old are particularly vulnerable to the flu. They could end up hospitalized. Especially some of them who come in with a lot of different conditions.

I wonder if those aren't maybe the people who SHOULDN'T be getting a shot. At least not without going thru their doctor, who is aware of all of their various conditions. Mental note to ask to see the forms they have to fill out to get a shot, the next time I go to a clinic. I wonder if it might not be better if they're hospitalized with the flu for a week or two, rather than possibly getting alzheimers. 

A turbaned guy gave me my flyers back, outside yesterday. I was going to try to tell him to keep them, and then noticed that there was something that he had in his hands, along with my flyers, something different. He put the stuff right in my hands when I said "no, keep them", like he wanted me to have it, and I looked at it when I came home and it was a flyer from the CDC, about PPV vaccine. Pneumonia. From 97, I think it said. Yes, I got it out of the garbage to look at it again. At the bottom, it says 'Pneumococcal (7/29/97) Vaccine Information Statement'. 

Why would they be handing out ten year old information at a flu shot clinic? That seems pretty old to me. Oh well I guess it's good to know they're consistent. That things haven't changed that much in ten years. Or are they handing out obsolete flyers?

Why have they only recently lowered the age so that babies now get flu shots? Has the flu gotten worse?

 

Here's something that I found really offensive. In my conversation with either Beth or Cathy, I heard, at least twice, "I don't know what you want me to say." Implying that I'm not really calling to get information, I'm calling because I want somebody to say what I want to hear. I'm pretty sure that that was Beth. Of Novartis. 

 

Somebody at Maxim, can't remember if it was the unnamed guy, or Polito, said that there aren't any states which mandate thimerosal free shots. I'm not sure if he said 'thimerosal free' or 'less than 1mcg'. I don't think this is true but I could be wrong. Maybe it is true that there are some states that have mandated shots that have less than 1mcg of thimerosal. ( they wouldn't be thimerosal free) I should look into this. If it's true that some states have mandated no shots over 1mcg thimerosal, then what the guy at Maxim is saying is very misleading. I have to limit how much I rethink older conversations. 

I should contact Dr. Masterson. That's my dad's doctor. See if he knows the thimerosal content of the vaccine dad got. I think it was Masterson who did dad's flu shot. 

 

Why DO they give shots at these fly-by clinics? Instead of in a doctors office. Convience? They did the same thing with me when I was in a public grade school. Sent nurses so that parents could just get their kids vaccinated at school, all convenient-like. They marched pretty much the whole class down to the nurses office at once for vaccinations. But this makes it even harder to do a follow up if there's some sort of problem. To track down the person responsible. If my dad had a problem with his flu shot (as it turns out I think he did), he can go to his doctor. The people who went to Walgreens would have to go thru a lot of what I just did, if they wanted to follow up. 

I've noticed that when I ask people questions, they very often answer a question other than the one I asked. Perhaps I'm not being specific enough. 

But I doubt it. 

What is the reason for the stuff I always see now in my women's magazines, in those two full page spreads that always come after the prescription drug ads? It reads like a package insert. Microscopic print. Are consumers really supposed to read this?? What's it meant for? Is it mandated? Who mandates it, if so, and why? So that if I get ill from the drug, I can't sue the magazine publisher? 

11/15/07, Thursday

DHHS 1.877.696.6775 12:50pm

The FDA and the CDC are both departments of the DHHS, are they not? 

woman on the phone: Yes

Can you transfer me to someone with the FDA, I have a question.

 

FDA 1PM

press '2' on voice menu for 'guidance documents'

Someone is TCB.

 

Monday, November 19

Somebody called from the FDA last week. Left a message for me to call 301.827.2000. I'll do that before I go to the flu shot clinic at the other library branch, this morning, if I have time. 

Ok, spoke just now with Pat Harley at FDA. She told me that the preservative they use is thimerosal. In flu vaccines. Multi dose vials, have to be preserved. Multidose vials because of cost. There's no law says they have to remove the thimerosal. I asked her why the FDA website has a table that shows it's recommended for children under six to get influenza vaccines with high levels of thimerosal. She says these aren't FDA recommendations. (Usually they are recommendations put out by the CDC or at the state or local level, she says. (Silly me for assuming that they are FDA recommendations, because they are on the FDA's website.)) FDA is just there to assure that a product is safe and works as they claim. 

She seemed pretty sure that the FDA has not licensed (found safe and effective) any influenza vaccine (of any kind, thimerosal free or otherwise, I think is what she said) for use in pregnant women. I told her that pregnant women have still been getting them. Are still getting them. 

I believe she said that the Fluzone influenza vaccine package insert recommends use in pregnant women. 

Oh, it's the FDA that requires magazines to put the fine print, that looks so very much like the package inserts, on the pages behind the full page prescription drug ads in the women's magazines. So that the consumer can be informed. Pat seemed concerned that the ads so often show happy people living perfect lives. Felt it was a good thing that they were given some hard solid facts, on the other sides of the pages with the bright shiny faces. I told Pat that I doubted that most doctors or nurses even read that stuff, let alone consumers. She said "let's hope they do!". Ha. Yah. let's hope so. 

Looking over the information I got from the Safeminds brochure, the one I've been handing to people at the flu shot clinics, I see that there are two types of Fluzone vaccines. Prefilled syringes, no mercury. And 5mL vials, which contain 25 mcg of mercury.

--> Check out the Fluzone package insert, online. Are they recommending them for pregnant women? Which version, thimerosal preserved or thimerosal free?

1:00 PM. Just returned from the other library branch, flu shot clinic. Lolly was there. A different nurse, one who wasn't at the Parma South branch last week, told me that they are using the same kind of vaccines as at the clinic I was at last week. "We don't change the flu vaccines we give from one week to the next", rather testily. They also were giving pneumoccocal vaccines. Same flyer from the CDC was there, that the muslim guy handed me. Informational flyer. People getting shots have to sign off that they've read the CDC flyers, on PPV and influenza vaccine. I don't know what the thimerosal content of the PPV vaccine is. They said those are only given to people over sixty five. There at the clinic at the library, at any rate. The forms don't ask for anything in the way of medical information about people getting a shot. Just if you've got any allergies to food or drugs. And if you've had flu or pneumonia vaccine before. The nurses don't ask people anything about the particulars of a person's medical conditions. 

The form people fill out is basically a release form. 'If payment is denied by Medicare, I will be billed for the cost of the vaccine. I have read the above statements and received copies of the handouts Pneumococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine and Inactivated Influenza Vaccine. Had opportunity to ask questions, understand the risks. I acknowledge that no guarantees are being made, and agree to release Parma Hospital of all liability.

Twenty five dollars for a flu shot. Lot of old people going in for flu shots. They typically aren't interested in reading my flyers. "I'm seventy eight. What's going to happen to me?". As tho, if anything should happen, she's seventy eight so who cares.  "I've gotten them before. No problems." And "I'm not going to get autism."    

One old woman commented that everyone's "getting the diarreah". My impression was that she meant to imply that the flu shot might keep her from getting it, too. 

I tried to watch while Lolly gave two shots. Don't think she shook the vial before either one. But for all I know she'd just opened one. And I wasn't watching every single second. Nurse number two was talking to me part of the time so I couldn't very well just sit and stare at Lolly. Pat, earlier this morning, had said it didn't matter. The thimerosal was so small. It wouldn't separate out. If they were supposed to shake the vials, it had something to do with cloudiness. 

Had to sit outside of the library. Librarian said she'd heard about me. When I told her I wanted to hand out information. I guess they were expecting me. Somebody from either the other library branch, or from Parma Hospital talked to her. Her eyes looked really big when she said it. That I would have to stay outside with my flyers. Might have been anger, or fear, but I don't know. Maybe it was just the way she looks all of the time.  

As I was leaving for lunch, there was a police car behind my car. I asked if there was a problem. Officer said that the woman parked next to me, she had two young children with her (and maybe a baby too but I'm not positive about that), had locked her keys into her car. Whew, that was a relief. It had nothing to do with me. 

--> Call DHHS.

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/flu_package_insert.htm shows a Fluzone package insert, 2002-2003 formula. I wonder if the formula's changed for 2007. Pregnant women who'll be in their second or third trimester during the flu season are listed as a 'target group'. This means a flu shot is recommended, because people in these groups are at an increased risk from influenza. 

Ah, here's the 07 formula insert http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/Fluzone_2006.2007_7.06.pdf. 'Because children aged six to twenty three months are at substantially increased risk for influenza related hospitalizations, ACIP, AAP, and American Academy of Family Physicians recommends vaccination of all children in this age group.' And they still recommend vaccination of women in second or third trimester, during flu season.

'The majority of flu vaccine distributed in the US contains thimerosal. But a flu vaccine with reduced or no thimerosal is available.' Package insert goes on to say that thimerosal's safe. benefit outweighs risk. No mention of recommending thimerosal free to pregnant women or to children aged six to twenty three months. 

So why is it being made available? Fluzone is Sanofi Pastuer. I wonder if I should talk to Lynn again.

They can recommend that their vaccine be given to pregnant women and babies, when the product hasn't been licensed by the FDA for that use? 

November 20, 2007

So then, to summarize the more disturbing facts I've uncovered so far:

 

In mid-1999, the United States Public Health Service Agencies, including the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), National Institutes of Health (NIH), CDC, and the Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) took precautionary action, working collaboratively with the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians and the vaccine manufacturers, to begin the voluntary removal of thimerosal preservative from the vaccine supply.

 

 

 

           Influenza               

Fluzone (Sanofi-Pasteur, Inc.) 

0.01% (12.5 µg/0.25 mL dose, 25 µg/0.5 mL dose)

Children 6 months old to less than 3 years of age receive a half-dose of vaccine, i.e., 0.25 mL (or 12.5 micrograms); children 3 years of age and older receive 0.5 mL(or 25 micrograms).

        Twelve to twenty five micrograms of thimerosal is not considered by anyone who’s ever had concerns about thimerosal to be a ‘trace’ amount. It is considered toxic.

 

 

 

'Because children aged six to twenty three months are at substantially increased risk for influenza related hospitalizations, ACIP, AAP, and American Academy of Family Physicians recommends vaccination of all children in this age group.'

 

        There is no recommendation that the thimerosal free version be used. And they recommend vaccination of women in second or third trimester, during flu season.

 

 

So, eight years after the CDC has said that thimerosal would be removed from vaccines for infants, we have Sanofi-Pasteur, Inc. manufacturing flu vaccines with high levels of thimerosal, and then recommending their use in pregnant women and in infants. FDA and CDC and American Academy of Pediatrics, eight years after saying thimerosal would be removed, does nothing about this. Nobody with the CDC could tell me what percentage of flu shot doses distributed had these high levels of thimerosal.

****

November 21, 

Is Prevnar (Wyeth pneumococcal vaccine, approved (by the FDA?) for use in infants, ) now being routinely advised for infants? Does it contain high levels of thimerosal? 

I see it has no thimerosal. This is good. I wonder if it has other crap. Aluminum, antifreeze.  Maybe I shouldn't fixate so much.

 

November 26,

Not too many people at the Royalton library branch for flu shots, this morning. One old guy seemed interested. Said he'd look into it. 

Need to call DHHS.

 

November 29,

Is it true that most European countries have removed thimerosal from all of their vaccines? (George Lucier, retired from NIH).  If they were able to do this, why, eight years later, has the US been unable?

 

November 30,

9:00am DHHS 877.696.6775 

Scarlet tells me I ought to call the CDC. I tell her oh no, I've tried that already. Then she tells me that with the number I dialed I somehow got transferred to the State of Ohio dept of HHS, in Columbus. "did you say you were in Ohio?". No, I tell her. I tell her I'll try the 202 number. 

202.619.0257 Receptionist tells me she doesn't know anything about this. "We don't know anything about this, here. Contact the CDC". I explain to her that I've contacted the CDC, as well as the FDA and a couple of manufacturers, but it seem as tho mostly all they are able to do for me is point fingers at each other. She says I really need to speak with the NIH, specifically the Office of the Secretary, and transfers me. To a receptionist named Ms. Ferman. 

"You want information about aerosl in vaccines? Hold on. .."

Me: "No, not aerosal. Thimerosal."

"You want to speak to Dr. Yeskee of emergency preparedness, 202.205.8387,

 or to the National Vaccine Office, 202.690.5566, talk to Bruce Gellin there"

I ask her to transfer me to the National Vaccine Office. (Altho first I tell her I want to speak to someone about thimerosal, not aerosal, and she says "yes I know, I can't pronounce it, but I know what you mean.)  Where the receptionist says I should speak with either Raymond Strike or Kenneth Bart. "Dr. Bart is in, you can speak to him"

Dr. Bart tells me he's spent forty years as a pediatrician and in epidemiology. That all recommended and required vaccines for children are thimerosal free other than flu shots, and all will be in a year or two. "At the earliest possible moment", he says. I ask is that true for the DPT and he says yes. --> Is this correct?

I ask him why flu shots are now recommended for pregnant women and babies, when they weren't routinely advised when I had my babies in the eighties and nineties. He explains to me that there's been an increase in awareness of the dangers of flu in pregnant women and children, and of pneumonia in particular. Goes on to explain the dangers of pandemics, (mentions the possibility of an H5N1 pandemic). I ask him if there's been any pandemics, or maybe I asked him if there're fears of a pandemic. He says yes, in 1918, 1957, one in 1968. I said "recently?" and he said well every year there's an epidemic of flu. "But that's not a pandemic?" I said, and he said no. I asked "is it that the flu has gotten more dangerous, then, or do you mean to say that there's just a greater awareness and understanding of the dangers of the flu?" He said that well this is the first year that the supply of flu vaccines has outpaced the demand. "So we have the ability, for the first time." He explained to me that in the past there's been shortages of flu vaccines, but that this year the government pressured the vaccine manufacturers to make more. And I said something like "oh so now you've got all of this excess flu vaccine, and it's got to be sold?" and he said "well the government doesn't have anything to do with that."

Later on he did say, tho, that the government buys up supplies of flu vaccines. I presume for certain government programs to help vaccinate children who can't afford vaccinations.

I explained to him that I'd heard that the thimerosal had been removed from all of the flu vaccines in Europe. And why couldn't they do that here in the US? I asked. And he stated again that every effort has been made to do that. Altho, he made it a point to say, there's no evidence that thimerosal is dangerous. When I asked him why the government agreed, in 1999, to work toward removing it, he said the usual, ie, well to be on the safe side, reassure parents, etc. Said that the WHO has said it's not a problem. The WHO, I believe he said, sees the US and Europe, and their views on the possible risks from thimerosal, and their desire to remove it, as unusual.

That is probably, as he made it a point to tell me more than a couple of times, because there's never been any firm scientific evidence that thimerosal causes autism. The amount is so small. It's not harmful. 

I said well obviously there're concerns otherwise there wouldn't have been the promise to remove thimerosal from vaccines. I asked him why they didn't at least recommend that if pregnant women and babies and children are now being advised to get flu vaccines, that they be mandated or advised to receive the thimerosal free flu vaccines? I told him that I didn't really understand the philosophy of informing parents, if they have concerns, to ask for thimerosal free shots. "If they're risky, is it fair that the parents who didn't know to ask should have a child possibly harmed by a flu vaccine?" And he said "if we recommended one type of vaccine over another, no one would get any vaccines". 

"But again", he said, "there's no evidence to show a link with autism."

I must say he was very nice, and spent over an hour speaking with me. We spoke of the expiration dates on the childhood vaccines--that some, I'd heard, were still on the shelves with 25 mcg of thimerosal and with expiration dates of '07. No, he said, you hear all sorts of things. 

Even tho we agreed that anecdotal evidence didn't mean all that much, we both related a few anecdotes of our own. Probably I did more than he did. He said his daughter in law had concerns about getting a flu vaccine while she was pregnant, and he told her to get one. I said "did you tell her to ask for one without thimerosal" and he said no. 

In summary I guess his main point was that the risks of flu outweigh the risks of thimerosal. And that while they're working to get the thimerosal removed from flu vaccines (his impression was that in the next year or two all flu vaccines would be thimerosal free), until that happens, for pregnant women and babies it's better for them to have a flu shot, even one with thimerosal, since the supplies are still low, than one without. He said something to the effect of that even tho the government health agencies have said that they'd work toward removal, "to extend this to public policy with the information we have" doesn't make sense, he said. Something about how the theoretical risks of autism weren't as important as the possibly very real risks from something like a H5N1 pandemic. I told him that I thought that the risks from a H5N1 pandemic were theoretical, and I'm not sure but I think he might've agreed. 

We spoke a little bit about bird flu. I asked him if the bird flu vaccines were being developed as single dose presentations or as multi dose presentations. I said that from most of the conversations I've had it seemed to me that it was most likely they were being developed as multi dose. For cost reasons. The idea being, as I'd heard, to vaccinate as many as possible. He said he didn't know. I could call Dr. Yeskee, of Emergency Preparedness. I wonder if the fact that they're being prepared for an emergency has some bearing on which type of presentation is developed. Probably. Still, I've heard talk of bird flu for a couple of years now. It seems to me that in that time, if they'd wanted to work toward removal of thimerosal, they could've built the production facilities to do that. If it's true that a single dose vaccine doesn't cost more than a few dollars more. I think most Americans who are paying for vaccines at all would be willing to pay a few dollars extra. Given that there were concerns voiced in '99, concerns serious enough to call for removal of thimerosal in both the US and in Europe. 

The regular flu vaccines, and by regular I mean for strains other than for bird flu, aren't prepared on any sort of emergency basis, altho I understand that they are developed to guard against new strains yearly, and those strains aren't decided on until January or February of that year.  Someone on the phone told me this, but who? Beth, she told me that orders are taken in Jan. or Feb. So they must know by then, obviously, which strains they are producing for. But do the individual strains they're protecting against have any bearing on the production facilities used, that is, on the particular presentations that are produced?

It still seems odd to me that in eight years they're still 94 percent high level of thimerosal. 

 

 

While that was somewhat reassuring, I didn't tell him but I still intend to put my 'mercury in flu shots is genocide' bumper sticker on the car. Until I'm totally convinced they really have done everything they can to remove thimerosal, I'll go for the attention grabber. He spoke of how many thousands of people die from the flu. That's quite an attention grabber. I'm not sure how true it is. Have heard reports that the number of deaths from flu is overblown. 

Would you have to make whole new factories in order to get supplies of thimerosal free (or less than trace) up to something over six percent? Do they make these flu vaccines in the single dose syringes day and night? Is that why they don't have enough manufacturing facility capacity to make more than six percent of flu vaccine doses thimerosal free or less than trace?

What about Europe? Are there manufacturers in Europe who could tell me if THEY have removed it from all flu vaccines, and how they did it, and what it cost and what's the big deal with doing it in the US? 

I need, probably, to get some sort of feel for, some sort of ball park figure at least, on how much does it cost per dose to manufacture the single dose syringe presentation, versus the multi dose vial presentation. Including the costs to build the production facilities.  

There are a hundred and thirty two million doses that have been consumed for this season, I believe that's what Mr. Bart told me. Times twenty three dollars each, minus overhead costs. Three billion, minus overhead. 

Mr. Bart said there were people lined up overnight outside trying to get flu shots during the flu shot shortage of a few years ago. I don't remember that. I do remember hearing a lot about how there was a shortage. 

First thing I find on a google search (flu + death+ reports+ overblown)-- this doctor talks of a 'frenzy', http://modernmom.com/content/1094.  It wasn't the first link when I searched, but I go to the Modern Mom link cause I've seen the site before. Oh, anyway the other three links listed before it are about bird flu, swine flu, aids. He's the 'hip, must have' pediatrician, who says not to worry so much. He's got concerns about the recommendation to give flu vaccines to babies six to twenty four months of age. It's not much but this is all the time I'm going to spend today looking into the risks from getting the flu. I suppose in all fairness I ought to do a search on just 'flu +death +reports'. First link shown on google list says 'fluvaccineinfo.org' but when i go there it's Medimmune's Flumist site. (the hip must have pediatrician reported Flumist available in '04 for eighty dollars, with a thirty dollar rebate) Next link google shows says 'flufacts.com' but it is a Roche website. Then comes a link about bird flu in indonesia, and then a CDC site with surveillance reports. Well whether there are more reports of flu, or not, or whether the flu is more severe or not, all of that isn't really all that relevant anyway. The important thing is that we can now protect babies and pregnant women against the flu, whereas in past years there wasn't enough supply to do that. Then comes a couple of links about bird flu, and then a site by Neil Z. Miller about how the CDC and the media yearly try to terrorize americans into getting flu shots with false claims of flu deaths. Who is this Neil guy? hmm. it says here that flu is caused by a virus, pneumonia by a bacteria. That's odd. So why did Mr. Bart say that in particular, deaths from pneumonia are causing concern, when I asked about the flu vaccines? 

He's a medical research writer. With a degree in psychology. Mr. Miller. No other medical credentials I can find. Ack. And a member of Mensa. Ah well. Let's just see if the part about pneumonia being caused by a bacteria is accurate. That doesn't seem like it'd be hard to verify. 

Seems it's an infection that can have a number of causes. virus, bacteria, fungus. parasites. Well, if Mr. Bart says that high numbers of deaths thru flu caused pneumonia is of concern, I will take him at his word. For now. 

 

This afternoon I'm going to the CVS on Royalton Rd. For the flu shot clinic. It's cold, but the sun is shining. I won't stay long, have to pick up Alex at school. Unless I can get Erin to get him. Got Louder Than Words at the library, will have something to read while I'm there :)

8:00pm

Flu shot clinic at CVS was at three. Let's see what I remember. I know it was a Maxim clinic. Was the Walgreens clinic a Maxim one? I can't remember. I know Maxim did Walmart clinics around here. And according to the their site they do some Walgreens stores, but the Walgreens I went to isn't listed on the site, anymore, if they did that store. 

-->> Call the Director of Pharmacy at Walgreens where I went. Was that a Maxim clinic?

So when I went to this CVS store this afternoon, first thing I did was go to the pharmacy counter, ask if it was ok if I gave out information flyers. I don't think the guy knew I wasn't with the flu shot clinic, cause he said "sure go ahead". I told him the last store I was at I had to hand them out outside, but I said it's kind of cold today so would it by any chance be okay if I stayed inside and he nicely said "sure, no problem."

So I sat down in one of the two chairs there by the flu shot table. Actually I think there were three chairs. Two a little ways away, one near the table. I said in one of those a little ways away. The nurse was on the phone, but he asked me if I was there for a shot and I said no. I started to read my book. Then about ten minutes later the nurse got off of the phone and started reading a magazine. He didn't seem curious as to why I was there. 

One woman came in for a flu shot and I told her I had information about vaccine safety I thought she should read and she took it but said she's gotten them a lot and never had any problems, and felt that as an adult she wouldn't get autism, and her doctor told her especially with her medical condition (didn't say what that was, I figured I shouldn't ask tho I was curious), she really ought to have one. 

A little after that a man came in with a little girl. He was filling out a form at the table when the nurse told me I would have to stand if I wanted to stay and warn people, as they needed the chairs. He didn't sound very friendly. Contempt is what I thought I heard, just a bit, in his voice. I told him that was fine, but then sat down on the floor. I assumed that it didn't matter if I sat, so long as I wasn't using their chairs, but maybe he didn't like that. I think the nurse went away for a little while after that, if I remember properly, and maybe the man was reading the flyer I gave him during that time, or maybe he was reading the form, I'm not sure which. He was still standing at the table with his back to me. While I was sitting on the floor I heard a voice over the loudspeaker paging for the manager to come to the flu shot area. I figured that was probably about me, sitting there on the floor. I guess I should've gone and got my collapsible canvas chair, but the floor was carpeted and looked clean enough and I'm really usually pretty comfortable enough on the floor. 

Or maybe I really was supposed to've remained standing.

So a minute or two later the manager came over and told me I'd have to leave. I wasn't even thinking about refusing, but he told me if I didn't leave, he would have to call the police. So I was picking up my stuff, but then I just had to ask him if, before I left, if I could ask the nurse one question. Actually I asked the nurse two. At first the manager wasn't going to let me, but when I asked why not, he looked kind of uncomfortable and then he said oh ok. I asked the nurse "do those shots have thimerosal, and are you giving them to children?". I don't know why, but I had the feeling that the man with the little girl was going to get a flu shot for the little girl. The nurse said "yes, they do have thimerosal", and "no we don't give them to children under nine". I don't know how old the little girl was. I would've guessed eight or nine. 

The manager followed me out of the store. Outside I asked him if he wanted a copy of my flyers, and he said no. I said "you're not at all curious?" and he said he was very busy and had all sorts of problems going on back inside of the store. He also said that I couldn't stay in the parking lot but had to be off the property, on the sidewalk.

I stuck around and gave one other flyer to someone who parked near the sidewalk. But the sidewalk wasn't all that close to the doors, and it was pretty cold out, so I left about five minutes later. 

 

Who was it who told me that they didn't give flu vaccines to children under fourteen? Was that Walgreens? the library clinic? No, scrolling back I can see that that was Walgreens. Who did the clinic at the Walgreens I was at a week or two ago? Maxim?

I wonder how old the kids were at the school where Maxim was doing a clinic? Read on one of the newsgroups today, somebody wrote and said that Maxim was doing a school flu shot clinic. 

Yeah the library lady, the first time I went to a library clinic, she told me they aren't allowed to do children. Didn't say what age tho. 

Ange from the newsgroup says those are Flumist vaccines at the school flu shot clinic. Flumist has no mercury. I wonder what other crap's in it, tho.

Dec. 3

Saw a site that said a cancer vaccine production facility was designed and built for 2.2 million. I don't know what the yearly production capacity was. It seems to me tho that it isn't the production of the vaccine that matters so much as the production of the syringes, the single dose syringes. The vaccine is the same vaccine minus the preservative, isn't it?

Shots around here sell for twenty three dollars each. Say every dose got sold for twenty dollars. They sold roughly a hundred and thirty million doses this season. That's $2.4 billion total this year. Let's say eight years ago (which was when they first said thimerosal would be removed), they sold $1 billion dollars worth. Average that and multiply by eight and you get $13 billion. If they'd taken just one half of one percent of that money and put it toward production facilities for single dose syringes, or whatever the heck it takes to produce thimerosal free shots, that would be $65 million. I know my numbers are rough, but they aren't THAT rough.  Or, rather, so what if they're rough, with figures that hugh? Don't think it's plausible they could've put half a percent toward development of single dose syringe production facilities? So make it a tenth of a percent. 

Don't tell me they did everything within their power to produce thimerosal free vaccines when if they'd spent a half a percent of what they've raked in from these vaccines over the last eight years they'd conservatively have spent over sixty million dollars.  Toward making single dose syringe shot production facilities and vaccines. They couldn't have done that? BS. 

 

Dec. 4,

Mr. Bart was on about the regulation process. As to why it took so long to get facilities built. As to why, eight years later, there's still mercury in flu shots. 

Lemme see, wouldn't those be the same regulatory agencies that're responsible for the fact that there were toxic levels of mercury in vaccines in the first place? 

The very same regulatory agencies you yourself are working for, Mr. Bart? 

I hope his daughter in law is ok. I hope her baby is fine. I hope her baby doesn't miscarry, like Anne's did. But lets face it, if there is a problem, he's not gonna contact me to tell me about it.

Dec 5,

9AM Left a message with Bruce Gellen, of the National Vaccine Office. Asked him TCB.  Wanted to ask him:

 

 

According to the FDA (http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#thi) thimerosal free Fluzone was approved in Dec. of 04. Actually at the bottom, in the footnotes, it says that a version of Fluzone with trace amount of thimerosal was approved in '02. Five years ago. 

According to the same site, DPT is thimerosal free, Mr. Bart is correct. 

I've estimated that if all of the one hundred and thirty million flu shots distributed in the US this season were sold for twenty three dollars, as they are being sold for here in the greater Cleveland area, that would be three billion dollars in flu vaccine sales. Just for this year alone. Given that the DHHS has said (eight years ago) that thimerosal would be removed, and given that a version of Fluzone that has trace amounts of thimerosal was approved in 02 and a thimerosal free version of Fluzone was approved in 04, do you think it's reasonable for a person to assume that the public health agencies and the manufacturers have worked to make all flu vaccines thimerosal free at the 'earliest possible moment', as Dr. Kenneth Bart, also of the National Vaccine Office, has told me? When the vast majority of flu shots being given to Americans this year, according to the information I'm getting, still have twenty five micrograms of thimerosal in them?   

Are you aware that there's a skull and crossbone on the bottle of thimerosal, and have you looked at the safety data sheet for the stuff? I know that the manufacturers and regulatory agencies say there's no solid evidence it's harmful, but are you aware that thimerosal's never been safety tested with the FDA, but rather grandfathered in?

There's an ad today in USA Today encouraging people to get their flu shots, even thru Dec and Jan. National Foundation for Infectious Diseases. Quarter page ad.  

From their webpage--

The National Foundation for Infectious Diseases (NFID) is a non-profit, tax-exempt (501c3) organization founded in 1973 and dedicated to educating the public and healthcare professionals about the causes, treatment and prevention of infectious diseases.

I guess that means that the government health agencies wouldn't know how much money they spend toward increasing public awareness about the importance of getting flu shots. I wonder if they'd be willing to tell me how much they spend. That's only the one organization. What other ones are out there? Organizations that don't encourage people to get flu shots because they're trying to profit from it (like Mr. Politio, at Maxim Health Systems, or the executives at Sanofi Pasteur), but simply because the people who give them money are dedicated and concerned about educating the public about infectious diseases? They're kind of like me in that sense. Unpaid but concerned. I'm just concerned about different things. 

Dec. 7

Spoke with Mr. Gellin's receptionist, she said he's not picking up the phone yet. I asked her to have him call me if he's going to be in today. I asked for his email address but I told her I'd really prefer to talk to him on the phone. Bruce.Gellin@HHS.gov. TCB.  She told me I could speak to Mr. Bart, but I told her I already had done that. 

Dec 11

I called the National Vaccine Office again this morning. Nobody was there to take any calls this morning tho, that's what the recorded message said. I was gonna leave a message for Mr. Gellin to call me back, but I've already done that. Maybe I'll just call back and leave another message anyway, for him. Yah that's what I'll do. 

American Lung Association has a program called Faces of Influenza. They've bought time on the Imus show to make sure to tell people to get their vaccines. Especially women pregnant this flu season. And people over fifty. And get flu shots for your babies. I've written his station. There at facesofinfluenza.org I see there's another handy dandy flu clinic search thing. I put in my zip code and it turns out there are clinics being offered at the CVS on Pearl Road. Minute Clinic is offering these clinics. I guess they have to spread the business around. Can't have all of the profit going to Maxim Health Systems. Thirty dollars each, or your insurance pays. To learn more, contact them at 866-389-2727.

Customer service rep at Minute Clinic says that they have both types of flu vaccines--with thimerosal and without. I asked her if the children got the thimerosal free version, if the parents didn't ask for it specifically. Their website says they will vaccinate children over four and over thirty three pounds. She said that the parents have to ask or else they could get the thimerosal preserved vaccines. She asked if I wanted to be transferred to a medical practitioner and I said yes. 

Spoke with Shawna. Just Shawna. I presume she was the medical practitioner, it's who they transferred me to. Shawna says that if a parent doesn't ask for a thimerosal free flu vaccine, then their child will automatically be given the thimerosal preserved version. 

I didn't think I'd be going to any more flu shot clinics. But I think I will pay CVS a visit. 

December 14

I haven't heard back from Mr. Gellin at HHS. Ah well he is the Director of the National Vaccine Progam Office. Busy man I expect.

I will send him an email.

 

Bruce.Gellin@HHS.gov

 

I spoke with Mr. Kenneth Bart on the phone a couple of weeks ago about flu shots and the presence of the mercury based preservative thimerosal, and I have to say that I still have some concerns about this issue, especially when I look at the amount of money that’s been made though the sale of flu vaccines.  Perhaps you can help me get answers to some of my questions.

 

Mr. Bart assured me that the dangers from the flu outweigh the risks from the flu vaccines, but I have to say that I am still skeptical about this. However what really concerns me are the claims that I hear from so many that ‘everything possible’ has been done in order to get the thimerosal removed from vaccines.

 

As you should know, in 1999 the Department of Health and Human Services vowed to work with public health agencies and with vaccine manufacturers to remove thimerosal from vaccines, especially from childhood vaccines. And yet here we are eight years later and while the toxin has been removed from routine vaccines for childhood diseases, it is still very much present at high levels in the vast majority of flu vaccines administered to Americans.  Not only that but health officials are now recommending flu vaccines to pregnant women and to babies—something that wasn’t done when my children were babies.

 

CNN recently had a story about flu shots on the internet in which they report that ninety four percent of flu vaccines this season have over a trace amount of thimerosal. Can you tell me if this number is accurate? I have tried to get information myself regarding this from a couple of manufacturers and from some firms that organize flu shot clinics here in my neighborhood, but I’ve met with very little success.

 

I’ve also heard estimates that an individual dose of flu vaccine without thimerosal costs somewhere around three to six dollars per dose more than one with thimerosal. Is this accurate? It doesn’t seem like much money for the average American, to protect a child from getting autism or other developmental or immunological disorders.

 

Can you tell me, are there other important differences between single dose syringe presentations, and multi-dose vial vaccines, other than the presence of preservative? Specifically, differences that might lead to a large and dissuasive increase in cost, or that might explain why manufacturers have been unable, even after eight years, to keep up with the need for thimerosal free vaccines?

 

I should explain that I am extremely skeptical that ‘everything possible’ has been done to remove thimerosal from flu vaccines. I did a rough calculation to determine how much money has been made through the administration of flu vaccines. Presuming that the average cost of the hundred and thirty or so vaccines that have been distributed this year was around twenty dollars (they go for around twenty to thirty dollars here in my neighborhood), I’m coming up with over two billion dollars in flu shot sales. I understand that there are costs involved with development and regulatory approval and manufacture and transportation and marketing (although why a marketing budget would be necessary for something that is supposed to be necessary to maintain the health of people I don’t quite understand but that is a whole separate issue) and administration of the shots, but it seems to me that if even a very small portion of those billions (and this is just for the current season—if I look at the last eight years it seems to me reasonable to assume that over ten billion dollars could easily have been spent by Americans on flu vaccine purchases), say a half of a percent, were used toward doing ‘everything possible’ to bring toxin free vaccines to all Americans, over sixty million dollars could conservatively have been spent. I have to say that I’m finding it very difficult to believe that these sums couldn’t have been spent and couldn’t have accomplished the goal. Even if the current manufacturing facilities were unable to produce enough single dose syringes, operating day and night, with over sixty million dollars I think that somebody could’ve managed to build new facilities. I’ve read that cancer vaccine facilities can be built for a few million dollars. Why couldn’t the government and the manufacturers, if they really wanted to, have put a few million dollars into a few new production facilities in order that children and pregnant women and babies could be receiving thimerosal free versions of their flu shots this year?  We are talking about a substance, I might remind you Mr. Gellin, which has a skull and crossbones on the bottle and which has never been approved for safety. I understand that your agency sees no evidence that the substance, injected into people at the levels it has been and is currently being used, is dangerous. However if I keep my eyes closed, I, too, can avoid seeing unpleasant things that I might not want to see.

 

My point is that the CDC seems to have a habit of making reassuring but baseless pronouncements that they are going to put a stop to certain things--remove certain substances, recall certain products.  (The recent recall of the Merck HIB vaccine because of possible contamination, all the while that assurances are being to the public that anyone who’s already been administered a HIB vaccine recently has nothing to worry about, comes to mind).  I think that they and you need to make up your mind. Either something is dangerous, or else it isn’t.

 

I get assurances from many people that if I merely ask for a thimerosal free flu vaccine, there are those available. My concern though is that there are a great many people who may not know that it is a wise thing to do—to ask for a thimerosal free flu vaccine. Wouldn’t you say that it is the place of the public health agencies to make sure that the public, ALL of the public, is kept safe from dangerous substances, not just those people who happened to be informed about the dangers of heavy metals?  Especially given the ever more frequent mandates to vaccinate that the public is being faced with? After all it is everyone who is being expected to trust the government health agencies when they are being told that they must receive a vaccine, not just the people who are knowledgeable about the substances that make up those vaccines, and their affects on immunological and nervous system function. 

 

Sincerely,

Robin Nemeth  

 

Jan. 7, 2008

Well nobody has returned any of my calls or my emails. But then, it's been the holiday season, so maybe that is why. I suppose I might try calling again, but probably not. I will be sure to update the blog if I hear anything back from anyone. Don't anyone hold your breath though, ha. 

This is interesting, on MedHealthInsurance.com:

I'd be real interested in finding out more about that study. 

 

Jan. 15, 2008

 

I wasn't going to keep on doing this. But then I heard about Karen McCarron, and then there was the CDC 'public service announcement' on my cable telly, encouraging people to get their flu shots. The one with lots of smiling children. (Karen McCarron is the pathologist in, I believe, Illinois, who suffocated her three year old autistic child with a plastic bag. She made a videotaped confession from her hospital room after a suicide attempt, with her husband sitting by her side, in which she said she felt guilty because she felt responsible, because she'd had her child vaccinated.  Not very positive and upbeat, eh, Marian Helmick?).

I didn't list any flu shot clinics in the area here, on my calendar, going into 08. I'll have to check the web and see what's out there. 

 

Jan. 16, 2008

I have to say it's pretty hard to find a flu clinic online, around here. But MinuteClinic (I found them on the American Lung Association website) offers clinics at CVS pharmacies. It's really cold out there and it's snowing. This time, I think, if i go to a CVS flu shot clinic to hand out info I'm not going to stay on the sidewalk I'm going to stay outside of the doors, and if they tell me I can't do that I'm going to say "are you sure?", like I did at the House of Blues benefit concert when the women of Autism Speaks tried to have me arrested. 

13777 Pearl Rd.  CVS, from 8 am to 8 pm, ten to four on sat and sun. Thru at least 2/3. I will print out the article about Karen McCarron, the one from the Boston Globe url, and take that. And maybe my thimerosal flyer.  First, I'm going to put the Cleveland police incident report in the safe deposit box. 

***

It's eleven oclock and I just got back from CVS. The Minute Clinic apparently isn't just flu shots. There's a nurse practitioner there and she takes care of other minor stuff, like sore throats and ear aches. 

There's a little room at the back of the CVS and the door to it was closed. The door said Minute Clinic, and had a sign that said 'with patient'. I sat down in the chair outside the door and waited for the patient to leave. As she left, (she was with an adolescent boy), I said to her "I have some information about flu vaccines that I really think you ought to look at. I didn't know, at that time, that the Minute Clinic does more than just flu shots. So she probably wasn't even there for the flu shot, but oh well. I gave her the thimerosal flyer and the Associated Press story about Karen McCarron. She took it and left. She looked at me like I was pretty wacky, <shrug>, but oh well. 

The nurse practitioner asked me if she could help me and I told her no, I was just going to give out this information about vaccine safety. She told me she would have to ask me to leave. I asked her why and she said "well I have a lot of sick people coming here, I wouldn't want you to get sick." I told her I would be fine. Then she asked me if she could see what I was handing out, and she took it in the little room and sat at the desk and looked at it for a few minutes, and then came back out to talk to me. 

She asked me if I'd been anywhere else, and I said "yes I have a blog if you'd like to see it." And she shook her head no and said "no I was just sort of wondering where" and I explained about the North Royalton libraries and CVS and Walgreen stores and she nodded. She asked me if they let me stay and I told her that the library let me stay outside, and I brought my lawnchair along, and she said "well you wouldn't want to do that here, now", cause there was snow on the ground, and I said "well I don't know, I might. So long as there isn't snow coming down top of me", and she let me stay. She told me that she hasn't given out many flu shots lately, and that they were almost all gone, and that when they are gone they won't be getting more for this season. Then she looked into her cabinet (it might've been a fridge) and said that all that were left were the thimerosal free ones. She'd told me before that they had thimerosal free versions, and that they gave those to people if people asked for them, and I told her "well what if the people don't know that they're supposed to ask", and she looked at me kind of funny and sort of shrugged a shrug that said 'well gee I guess I never thought about that, ya think maybe I should've?'  But she never answered my question in words-- just changed the topic. She asked me if I was from around there and I said yes from North Royalton and she said oh, and it seemed to be fine with her, and she said she treated people from there a lot. Then she went back in her little room and so   I sat and did breathing exercises so I could calm down a bit, and then I bought a candy bar and left. 

This form patients have to sign when they get Minute Clinic treatment has this clause about payment that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. First it says 'I am responsible for paying the cost of any services at the time the services are provided..' but then goes on to talk about 'if Minute Clinic seeks reimbursement for services on my behalf', I am responsible for paying any copays. Oh well, I'm no lawyer, so I'm not going to try to understand it. Oh, it's not Minute Clinic, btw. It's MinuteClinic. No space.  I dunno, maybe there just isn't time for the space. 

 

Jan. 17, 08

I went to see my D.O. For this foot injury. He was very nice. There were three or four of those marketing execs who came in in the time I was there waiting in the lobby--from about eleven to twelve oclock. Somebody came with food, in a little canvas carry-all thingy. I asked the receptionist, thru the little window, “do you have quite a feast spread out back there, then?”. Ha. I wish my voice hadn’t shook so much when I spoke. She gave me the look that was like ‘what-on-earth-are-you-on-about.’  She said “oh I don’t know, I don’t ever eat any of it. I leave at one anyway. I asked her if I could see. She gave me that look, the one that looks like how you’d expect somebody to look at you if you were picking your nose, and she said well let’s take your blood pressure. I asked if I could see after that, and she said “well you can ask the Doctor.”

So I asked Dr. Matt, after he looked at my foot, about the food. “Olive Garden,” he said. Mmmm. “I don’t eat any of it. I just spend about five minutes talking to them, they give us lots of free samples for the people who can’t afford their medications. I said “did you ever stop to think that if you stopped talking to them, they’d go away?” He said “oh no, they won’t go away. It’s their job. Everyone is just doing their job”, and all I could do was sigh. He gave me a Tender Foot pad and some exercises and I shook his hand and left, without looking at the food spread in the kitchen. I seem to remember somebody mentioning something called a ‘No Free Lunch’ pledge. I’ll have to see if he’ll sign it. Ha. He probably will. Even tho the food’s brought in, nobody eats it.  Guess I’ll have to do some shopping about for a new doctor. Oh well. 

 

Well now that's not true, really, is it? When I said 'nobody eats it'.  I mean, how could I know that? I'll bet that at least some of those people at State Road family practice eat some of that food. Otherwise, sheesh, what a waste. And Dr. Matt and the receptionist I spoke with, they just pull out their paper sack lunches and sit at the table in the kitchen eating their paper sack lunches along with the Olive Garden eaters. 

Was it just my imagination, or did I see a dump truck with the number ‘16’ painted on the side go driving down my street this morning?  

 

Oh for heaven's sake. Maybe the Doctors just paid for their own lunches, and the Olive Garden delivery guy just happens to remind me a lot of a pharma marketing executive. 

 

February 6, 08

From the CDC's website on vaccine additives, http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm--

'Today, all routinely recommended pediatric vaccines manufactured for the U.S. market contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts.'

Go there, you'll see, that is what it says on the CDC's own website. 

It's a lie. I can't say it's wrong, because I know that it's not wrong, it's a lie. 

The CDC has been responsible for recommending that children get flu vaccines. I know that is what I read on Barbara Loe Fisher's site Myths and Timelines. In 2003, this is what the CDC began recommending. 

Oh well. I guess since the CDC's website doesn't actually say that all vaccines routinely recommended by the CDC contain no thimerosal or trace amounts, they are technically correct. "Somebody, somewhere, once recommend that children get them, but that doesn't mean it was us..." Ha. Very funny.

No wait, it says this right here, on the CDC's own website, http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5208a1.htm, it says 

'Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)'

Emphasis was mine. ACIP, they are part of the CDC. And then the site goes on to talk about how babies age six to twenty three months should have flu vaccines. These are 2003 recommendations. I wonder if there's anything here about reduced thimerosal vaccines being recommended. (even tho the vast majority of those produced weren't thimerosal free or less than one mcg).  I wonder what the recommendations are for this year. 

The above CDC site says:

4. A limited amount of influenza vaccine with reduced thimerosal content, including 0.25-mL single-dose syringe preparations for children aged 6--35 months, should be available for the 2003--04 influenza season.

Well now what on earth does that mean? 'should be available'? 'limited' amount? Limited to what?

And then, further down on the site

Because of the known risks of severe illness from influenza infection and the benefits of vaccination and because a substantial safety margin has been incorporated into the health guidance values for organic mercury exposure, the benefit of influenza vaccine with reduced or standard thimerosal content outweighs the theoretical risk, if any, from thimerosal.

There're references given. Look it up yourself if you're interested in those. 

The fact still remains that they've said that it's been removed. 

And it hasn't. 

Oh wait the site says there's an erratum. I looked that up. It means a correction to an error. 

'Safety margin'?? What safety margin? When has a safe level of ethyl mercury that's being injected into infants ever been determined?

2007 recommendations, http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5606a1.htm,  seem to be for children age six months to eight years to receive influenza vaccine. 'Hypersensitivity reactions to thimerosal occur but are rare. No scientific evidence for adverse effects from thimerosal...yadda .. yadda... ' And then this

The U.S. vaccine supply for infants and pregnant women is in a period of transition during which the availability of thimerosal-reduced or thimerosal-free vaccine intended for these groups is being expanded by manufacturers as a feasible means of further reducing an infant's cumulative exposure to mercury. Other environmental sources of mercury exposure are more difficult or impossible to avoid or eliminate.

But the fact of the matter is that influenza vaccines being routinely recommended by the CDC STILL CONTAIN TOXIC LEVELS OF THIMEROSAL.  

Let's see what the erratum's all about. The one on the 2003 season website. Oh. There was an error in the title for table three. It should read "Influenza vaccine* dosage by age group --- United States, 2003--04 season."

Thank goodness they've corrected that. 

Have I been repeating myself? Hasn't it already been determined that although thimerosal, in toxic levels, hasn't been removed from routinely recommended childhood vaccines, there are people saying that it has? Well the thing is up until today I've heard this from the FDA, and I've heard it from a lot of people on the 'news' programs. (In between prescription drug commercials.) This is, I believe, the first time I've seen any documentation that the ACIP has been recommending routine vaccination with toxic vaccines all the while that the CDC, on a website devoted to information about vaccine additives, is saying that vaccines made now contain no thimerosal or trace amounts of it. Content on that one, it says, was last reviewed in April of '07.  

Oh well, the CDC isn't claiming that all routinely recommended childhood vaccines being administered today contain trace or no thimerosal. No, what they've said is that they aren't being manufactured.

And yet, I'm almost positive that when I've heard reports on the 'news' (in between prescription drug commercials), what I have heard is that 'thimerosal is no longer in vaccines'. 

 

October 2008,

For a continuation for the '08 season, see 'http://wideopenwest.com/~r_nemeth/clinic_timeline_dr.htm'.